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An average American that has some thoughts on politics, culture, and society with a conservative and Catholic twist.

Location: Louisiana, United States
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Monday, July 03, 2006

Response to the St Louis Council of Conservative Citizens on the good Ole League and other Matters

Well, I saw that my friend with from Council of Conservative(not) Citizens - St Louis has responded to my post that is right below. I feel that it deserves a little response. Plus, I expect Internet traffic will be almost non existance today, so I will indulge my battle with kookdum a little bit more(We shall get to more normal topics soon).

(1)Mr St. Louis takes me to task on a few points here. The first is my assertion that the League of the South is bigger and more organized than the Council and I am falling for a sort of an clever internet facade. Well, first let me say that I don't think I called it bigger membership wise. I expect the Council of Conservative Citizens is bigger for various reasons. Organization? I am not sure. I believe the Council has some advantage over the League. First the Council of Conservative being formed in 1985 had a 9 year jump on the kooky League of the South. For those that don't know the leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens largely formed this group from the old mailing list of the infamous White Citizen Councils that existed back in the bad ole days. The influence and membership of both the Council and League of the South is not uniform in all areas. For instance, despite having some of its leading lights from Louisiana, the League has appeared to me to fail to catch on in Louisiana. The Council of Conservative Citizen's efforts, at least to what I have observed here, has little influence also. But cross the border into Mississippi and the Council's influence is significantly more. That makes sense because the White Citizen Council was most powerful there.

By the way readers of the Loopy Pondering American and our visitors from the esteemed Council of Paleo Conservative Citizens. Let take advantage of this trip down memory lane to look at something fascinating. We often hear from people like Mr St Louis how oppressive the Federal Governement is and how its nose is in places where it does not belong. I agree in part. But lets see what happened when you folks were in charge down there in the grand ole Magnolia State of Mississippi. This shows in part why I am so concerned about these groups The Word for today is the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission. It was formed back in 1954 after it bacame apparent that this uppity Negro problem was not going away. It's purpose was to "do and perform any and all acts and things deemed necessary and proper to protect the sovereignty of the state of Mississippi, and her sister states” from a perceived “encroachment thereon by the Federal Government or any branch, department or agency thereof; to resist the usurpation of the rights and powers reserved to this state and our sister states by the Federal Government or any branch, department or agency thereof. Well, I think we know what means since this occured after the famous Supreme Court Case of Brown vs the Board of Education case. It was in fact the State's FBI and KGB all rolled into one. This commission was a State wide organization that had agents in all the Counties. Who were the agents of this combination star chamber and cotton patch gestapo? Well many were from the good ole White Citizens Council that is now the new Council of Conservative Citizens in Mississippi. Well besides trying to make sure black votes were not getting to uppity ,like wanting rights , they did what Southerners enjoy doing. That is being nosy. Besides spying on blacks and civil rights worker, they were violating everyone else's CONSTITUTIONAL rights all over the place. We learn that this State Agency was doing all sort of important work including but not limited to who was sleeping with whom and who was a subversive. Subversives for instance that included Methodist preachers that decided if a black person attended their Church that the whole world wouldn't fall to pieces. Well the good ole White Council folks that were involved in this commission were also using State funds for the placing informants all over the place. The whole thing became quite ridiculous after a while and at the end of the day, probally some folks at the older version of the Mississippi Council of Conservative Citzens were getting a little extra spending money from both the State and the FBI. So after a while, people got tired of being spied on and the Commission was pretty much neutered. I went officially out of existance in 1977(I am sure they had to wait a couple of years because someone relative that was there needed to get retirement). Of course ,because of it countless lives were ruined, and many were intimidated. Perhaps even some people died. AnyWho

as you can imagine this whole Mississippi KGB star chamber became an embarrassment to some pretty important folks in Mississippi, including current members of the Mississippi Council of Conservative Citizens. Their solution- seal all the damn records till 2027. Well lets just say that after nine years of litigation a Federal Judge disagreed and the now the entire "surviving"records can be searched online here by even by name . If a name was written down it can accessed. So if you spied on your neighbors, were spied on ,paid or were given money by whoever to be an informant, or you were the bag man please fill free to type in your name and go down memory lane when the Council ruled things. I often wonder by the way, what might have just disappeared in these records. But regardles much is there. To my friends in the St Louis Council of Conservative Citizens . A little gift from me to you to put in your scrapbook. A letter from 1965 that is sent to the Director of Sovereignity commission thanking him for the fine things the Mississippi folks were doing and how they wanted to apologize that the City Council of St Louis thought otherwise. Are these members of the Original White Citizens league in St Louis? This is also signed by Mr Baum now leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens USA. Good Grief, it almost like looking at a perverted form of the Federalist Papers. For anyone interested there is a ton of resources on the net about this disturbing part of our history. I have to admit it is fascinating. Anywho back to your post

The Council does has some advantages. First if one can say it, it is less kooky than the league. I expect in many places the average Council of Conservative Citizen member does not believe in this weird goal of a Southern Republic as envisioned by the League.
However, the League does have certain advantages. One must note that for a group that started in 1994 it is rapidly approaching the numbers of the Council. I have seen estimates of 9000 League members. Of course, Koodom by defintion is extreme and at some point the available pool of people that would be interested in that starts to dry up. The league also has a advantage because one senses that this is just not a political movement but a way of life they advocate. There is a pecular form of southern religious thought that can be found that is compatiable with the League it seems. For instance, I have noticed on some blogs that League memeberss can often be found in the PCU branch of the Presbytarian Church. In fact, one could say that the Mother Church of this movement , right down the road from me, can be found at the famous Auburn Ave Presbytarian Church in Monroe Louisiana where the controversal Pastor Wilkins can be found. Who by the way, sat on the League of the South's Board of Directors. Plus, in certain areas, I can't help but notice that there membership might have been boosted by radical elements in the Sons of the Confederate Veterans that also helped boost membership.
I said in my earlier post I felt the two organizations were in fact in many cases interlocked. Let me clarify that. I do not think that is a case on a National level but in certain areas of the Country on the local level there appears to be much joint efforts.

(2) The second point is about the the folks trying to get control of the Son's of Confederate Veterans. This appears to be more than jsut a persoanl spat among people that think the same. Since the League of the South's puppet guy got control, they have lost 25,000 members in the last few years. That did not occur over a personal feud in the organization. It occured because the League is trying to force the SCV into political areas that the SCV has never gone into. In fact that as policy has avoided. This is what is both brillant and frightning about the League of the South's power play on the Sons of Confederate Veterans. First, it opens up areas of recruiting all over the place. Even though, I believe the majority of the average rank and file would reject an full embrace of this weirdness, it would still give them a presence overnight that would take years to accomplish. Further the most dangerous part is that these nuts from the east can subtly use the ScV as a political force and another PR group for their role in the political debate of issues.

(3) The blogmiester brings up an interesting point about how we owe our success to the Wallace wing of the party. First let me say that even George Wallace repented and asked for forgiveness for his use of hate in gaining power. However, he held correct views as to some issues relating to Federalism(not all), taxes, and other matters. The Southern conservative movement cannot all be attributed to the extreme elements of the Wallace wing. Wallace might have been a figure in it but even by 1976 the extreme racial animous that was found in that wing was starting to be replaced by serious conservative thought. This is natural since a few years were needed to get over the huge social and political trauma that the South had just come out of. The Southern conservatives have moved on. However the Council of Conservative Citizens and the League of the South have not.

(4) I think I have made it clear that organizations such as the Southern Poverty group and like minded groups are liberal. I am under no illusions they are conservatives. In fact I think they are extreme in some issues as yall are in their view that every issue is black and white and there is no gray.At this point the National Review and others have not made it a crusade to go against you. Part of that is because we do not want to expose our crazy aunts in the attic to people on a National level. Second, it is really not worth conservative media to expose all this because at the end of the day your political relevance is limited in the big scheme of things. Even though, media through its ignorance is reporting on some of your events like it is mainstream. My main goal is to make sure that yall stay in the attic at the very least.. One cannot just say groups are liberal and everything they say is false. I know there is a cat fight between yall and at I feel no need to take a side in it. I have to go no further than go to the Council of Conservative Citizens paper, The Citizen Informer, and other media and see that 90 percent of what they say is true. The Council's National Convention that just occured in Indiana is a fact. That abbhorent speaker list at the convention is a fact. The participation of radicals like Stormfront is a fact. The Splc and the ADL just point me to areas that I need to pay attention too. As to disloyalty. I am not even sure that some of your views can be classifyed as hard right. Do I believe that yall are ALL Klan members and are violent. No, I think that is silly. However, I again have concerns over some new possible members. Just sayingThis racial business to me goes beyond the categories of right and left. Again, I do not view everything that the SPLC is gospel. But so far, I have not found much that is incorrect in what I have posted on.

Anyway my Friend in St Louis of Council of Conservative Citizens I enjoy this back and forth and have a happy Fourth of July weekend. I will add you to my blogroll when I get the categories set up.

Sincerely Loopier than ever Pondering American

PS Stop the astro turfing

Update- 1
I am going to look for somew things on the MExican Election as well as do another post on milbloggers. I will however put some links to info about the Mississippi Soverignity commision below this post this evening.

Mississippi Soverignity Commision Links.
As I stated, I have had an interest in this little facet of history. It is a glimpse of power gone mad, the battle for the better natures of man versus evil, betrayal, its all there. By the way its my firm belief that some records of the early days have disappeared. Why? Because some old men might be at Parchman Prision awaiting their date with the Death Chamber if they resurfaced. That will come to light when people that are preparing to meet their maker on their death bed and confess some things. The commision is till serious business. Just look here and you see it can be to this day an matter of life and death. Still I urge people to go there. Most of its there.I have posted a link to the main server above here are a few links.

Mississippi Sovereignty Commission blog is pretty interesting. She is a liberal blogger and she lived through this difficult time. I can see how the experience pushed her to that side. The archives are cool and hit some interesting stuff in the records. The links seem not to link up with the Mississippi Server but one can easily put the name in she references on the main site. Her other blogs though liberal are interesting

This is an interesting link. He was around for those days of the Council and even talks about the its new reincarnation as the CoCC. He is liberal(Socialist) but I find many of the Mississippi Council of Conservative Citizens don't blog about their experiences acting for the Holy commission. Wonder why that is. Still cool view of what it was like. He might be a far left but my Miss relatives back up his description. I put this link on because he mentions Governor Winter of Mississippi that needs to get a nod for being a good guy

A one page overview from PBS

Interesting also

By the way I am putting this blog up. reporter that followed the trial of Edgar Ray Killen who was later convicted a horrible triple murder during the civil rights days. The acts of these White Councils and the klan can never be forgotten nor repeated.. The blog is best viewed from the earliest entry to last.


Blogger SJ Reidhead said...

"Your last line mentioned RONALDVS MAXIMVS. I could go on for paragraphs about this, but it is hypocritical for “mainstream Republican” types, you or any of the others, to embrace Reagan but bash “racists” and George Wallace, because Reagan owed his political success on the national level to the Wallace movement..." I find this statement from the St. Louis CofCC Blog to be quite revealing.

In otherwords, they do not view themselves as 'mainstream GOP'. I find it also quite fantastical that the CofCC thinks that the 'Reagan Revolution' was built on the temple of Wallace racism. This also proves to me how little the extreme right actually knows about the Republlican Party.

Basically I REST MY CASE - we're not dealing with ticked off Republcans as they allege to be - these folks have absolutely nothing to do with the Republican Party and are so far from it they wouldn't recognize an Elephant in the bathtub with them even if they smelled the peanuts on it's breath!

I don't know about you, but I find these discourses to be quite illuminating and very worth-while. I am also very impressed with the St. Louis CofCC for engaging in logical discourse. I think it is much needed on both levels and I think maybe we are all doing some good.

Have a good 4th. BTW have you heard the poll that said only something like 45% of Americans recognize the fact that thee Fourth of July as a the day we celebrate our Independence.

The Pink Flamingo may take a day off and finish up that blasted book that is due in a few weeks.

The Pink Flamingo

7:36 PM  
Blogger Pondering American said...

You have a Happy 4th too. I agree. I have to admit I enjoy and think some good come out this too

8:00 PM  
Blogger SallyVee said...

Hey Loopy!

First comment, around the one mile marker where you turned this phrase:

combination star chamber and cotton patch gestapo...

You crack me up, all the while making important points and showing the nauseating hypocrisy of the great defenders of our constitution:

they were violating everyone else's CONSTITUTIONAL rights all over the place. We learn that this State Agency was doing all sort of important work including but not limited to who was sleeping with whom and who was a subversive. be continued

10:10 PM  
Blogger SallyVee said...

I wholeheartedly agree with Pink Flamingo's remark: we're not dealing with ticked off Republcans as they allege to be - these folks have absolutely nothing to do with the Republican Party and are so far from it they wouldn't recognize an Elephant in the bathtub with them even if they smelled the peanuts on it's breath!

The kooks have hijacked words like conservative and RINO, although I never really liked that acronym to begin with. But the real "RINOs" are these extreme libertarians or supremely white fascists or whatever they are, who just pretend to be Republicans in order to recruit and attach themselves to mainstream orgs.

Matter of fact, one of the very first alarm bells which started to wake me up to the problem in our midst was this fraudulent use of words. I remember saying to my husband: hey, I'm a conservative and I am one of 'Bush's base' supporters... but these kooks (like Tancredo, Malkin, Sessions) do not speak for me! How many times have we heard it reported that 'Bush's base' or a 'vast majority of conservatives' do not support the president's views on immigration?

It's a bunch of propaganda, and it signals how eager the kooks are to push their agenda, and how much integrity they've lost along the way.

10:45 PM  
Blogger SallyVee said...

Your point #4 mentioning the Southern Poverty Law Center. Listen, PA, you turned me on to this amazing resource and I will here and now defend and applaud the SPLC's work. Thank God they've been doing this important work, all these years while I've been asleep. So what if they're "liberal?" I'm liberal too when it comes to little things like human rights, racial equality, and justice for all -- kinda like the American way.

In bios and fact sheet info, it has so far been my observation that SPLC goes out of its way to be unbiased and straightforward.

Again, part of the job they are doing is a job WE on the RIGHT should be doing ourselves. I also found out my Rep. Spencer Bachus (R-Alabama) did his law internship with SPLC.

11:08 PM  
Blogger Pondering American said...

I agree. In fact that is one reason I do this. I think on the whole the SPLC is a good thing. They were instrumential in doing a lot of research into this Tanton groups I talk about. A argument could be made that those group philosophy is very left in a way. But again I agree, the right just needs to find out about this stuff and fight it and report on it ourselves

My only problem with the SPLC is they go overboard sometimes in whom they talk about. I think if they keep their focus on hate groups that would be good. But generally I have to admit their research is good. I didnt know that about Rep Bachus by the way that is interesting.

I suppose I need to do a post on the whole Black/white issue soon. As you know its not Nivernia down here as to that. I suppose if I am going to be critical of the kookdums David Duke like solutions, I should do a post on what I see as the solution to these stupid problems we have been dealing with for decades

11:31 PM  
Blogger SallyVee said...

Your link to the article "Sovereignty papers released" is very interesting indeed, and mega wince-inducing.

What is it about white kooks including German Nazis and the Neo-Nazi racists living among us in the U.S. ... they LOVE to keep records records records and spend endless amounts of time recording trivia, snooping on their neighbors, and finding the most absurd ways to feel superior about themselves over others. Pathological, and potentially very dangerous.

11:40 PM  
Blogger Pondering American said...


You are right its weird. Of course I guess part of it was that this was a State Agency so Govt workers do what Govt owrkerd and do tons of paper work.

2-Some of these people that were "informing" were getting some nice pocket change so isppose they just wrote everything they could

3-I will try to find the link, but inthe early days money from the state was being directly channeled to these councils. In other words some peole were making a tidy income off of this too.

11:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting site. Useful information. Bookmarked.

8:58 PM  

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