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An average American that has some thoughts on politics, culture, and society with a conservative and Catholic twist.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006

A Further Response to the Council of Conservative Citizens in St Louis

UPDATE- This is a response to a new entry from the Council of Conservative Citizens in St Louis blog. Let me state that this Council is very influental and important in the Council of Conservative Citizens. Which of course is a big element in Kookdom as I call it. I think that several things should be noted that is coming out here.
(1) It is an interesting glance into the Council. Perhaps we shall continue this discussion in the future? This blog so far is the best run info organ of this extremist group that I have found. Its is very current, well written and I am looking forward to see what I find in its archives
(2) As I mentioned, this post here on the site is very important. It is clear as can be picked up in some media and on the net that there are rumors of financial misconduct involving some major people in the Minuteman group and other related associations. It appears that former Minuteman and White Supremicist Joe McCutcheon who is involved in the anti immigration movement was a quite a speaker at this group's convention. Apparently, while he was at the Council of Conservative Citizens Conference he spilled the beans and just came out with what is really going on with the people that Lou Dobbs, Alan Keyes, Tancredo and others just love to death. I have been trying to find a a tape of his remarks. . Of course it could be just hurt feelings in the Kookdum land but I think not. Again, something big might be about to happen. One gets a sense that a lot of money is being made here and it aint going to a fence. This could have big effects on those Congressman and groups that have endorsed these folks. It could shift the debate.

(3) There is something close to an admission that this racist group has had connections with the minuteman project. As the Blogmaster of the CoCC St Louis states the minuteman group is rather a loose confederation of spin offs . Think Al Qadia. But however their association was not "formal" which I take to mean in a legal or public acknowledgement way. I will leave you to decide the context and spirit of his remarks again in the above link on potential misconduct and hsi response to me.

(4) This group did meet with Tancredo. It was not denied at all and I think this man is in influence to know.

(5) That the leadership of the CoCC has big complaints with the current conservative and Republican leadership is not surprising . Of course they would since its Kookdom. However one should, in my view, remember that when they are conducting rallys etc. This is a group that will abandon any connections to mainstream conservatives quick and might strike out as an independent party especially as it becomes more radical. I for one can't wait for that to happen.

(6) You will notice that this leader in the CoCC did not bite at my questions regarding the introductions of some radicals in the Council of Conservative Citizens. These radicals include elements that can be found on the stormfront blog that is also very Aryan, very Nazi, and in effect crazed. He did not bite at my Jewish comments either. There is something to note here. The Council is anti semtic. The Greenwood Mississippi council raised money for the defense of the guy that bombed the churches and the Jewish Temple I believe in Greenville Mississippi if my memory is correct. These events occured in the 60's but he was not brought to trial till the 90's. This perhaps shows some element of disagreement in kookdum. I have noticed on several far extreme aryan and white nazi like sites that they think that the Council is still too Jewish friendly. I chalk this up to the fact the many Council of Conservative Citizen members in the South are fundamentalist and adhere to the idea of the need to support the State of Israel as a part of God's plan. Also, that there were actually pretty good relations between white Southerners and Jews even in those small river towns back in the day. The whole concept and history of what was known as the "jew store" is southern history is pretty fascinating.I might be way off but I have detected despite all the crazy talk of neo cons that a segment there at the Council is not embracing Storm Fronts radical anti Israel rhetoric .

Update II- Mr CoCC responds to this post here. He also wanted to state his position about his blog and its relationship between the CoCC a. By the way Mr CoCcCThe California race is not an indicator. If he couldnt win in a 70 percent Republican district then we might as well hang it up.W e shall revist our friends thoughts in middle America again as time goes by. I did this post in the middle of the night and I have attempted to correct the most glaring of grammatical errors. Yes, I know there is still some here. However posting will be light till tonight. I hope to have the latest on the Cannon/Jacob race as well as a roundup on what some bloggers are saying in Iowa and New Hampshire on the the 08 race. Till then please visit my blogroll.
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Well, it seems I am about to break my own rule as I stated below. I am not even going to try to do a small post to get past the two post before I would talk about the extremes again. It seems that my friend at the Council of Conservative Citizens in St Louis is also burning up the midnight oil and has typed out a response. Well, if he typed it I will respond to it. I don't want this to go unanswered. PLus, I do find his answers intriguing, and I think it would be a service to engage him.

I am having huge problems figuring out how to cut and past off his blog. Perhaps you can't with the page type of blog he is using. My computer knowledge is slim as it is and generally I have to bump around till I figure out the solution. You should see me when I try to play around with this template yikes. Anywho I will spend all night trying to figure out how to do it so I will improvise. So lets begin.

For clarity, I will refer to the blog master in St Louis as the CoCC. I realize that he does not say he speaks for the National CoCC and is perhaps not making statements officially for the Council of Conservative Citizens St Louis Branch. But it appears to be about as any thing official we will get as to that chapter. Also CoCC is just easier to type.

What is in bold will be from my original post that come from this link. What is in italics is my paraphrasing of his comments to my bold statements. My response will be in normal type. Again you can view all of the Council's bloggers comments here in his own words. Clear? Yeah probally not Oh well. Here we go.

(1)In fact, as it is using us its has designs to destroy the Republican party.
The CoCC responds that the Republican party is just doing far at that without their help. Also that if the Repubs manage to hold the house its will largely be because of the efforts of Tancredo and Congressman like him.
Well let me say that he and I might agree in part on the first half of his statement. I am not saying that all is glorious in the party of Lincoln. When is it? I would like to see them get spending a tad more under control for instance. However, their peformance has been at times disappointing. The handling of the Dubai terminal deal was dangerous to our foreign policy for instance. At the end of the day I wasn't sure if Rice was Secretary of State or if it was Senator Schumner or Congressman King. The end result was that it seems a bunch of Democrat controlled unions and Democrat doners got a shot at some terminal leases. We got SNOOKERED. That was an big example of how the House Repubs paniced whether than have a debate . There were other cases too. More governing and less listening to ever pronouncement of talk radio. However there was much good. Tax cuts, Bankruptcy reform, etc. IN the end their leadership , despite getting a tad weak in the knees for a moment on the WOT has been supurb.
As to Tancredo. his antics could destroy us. I think we will have a big answer tuesday night in the Cannon/Jacob race. As I have already posted that race will tell us much. As to the immigration issue. I have yet to see that its a huge factor in individual races. In fact it doesn't seem to be saving Senator Santorum at all at the moment. Congressman Hayworth seems to be as in much trouble as ever. Being tough on immigration hasnt helped him. Tuesday night we will have a possible sign of things to come.

(2)That is you can't trust what they say about us because they are all LIBERALS or worse. Well we shall see.
CoCC seems to think that I believe he is referring to me as liberal.
I think this is perhaps a misunderstanding. I did mean to imply that you thought I was liberal. I was trying to point out the defense that I often hear. That is that information, about the such things as the the Council of Conservative Citizens, F.A.I.R. or other Tanton groups, comes off liberal leaning sites and thus is suspect and should not be looked at. That was what I meant there. As for me being a neo con. Well it depends what that means. I hear about ten different definations of that term. If the Bush foreign policy is Neo Con then I am a Neo Con.

(3)At the same time, as a Christian conservative I reject the hate and kookdum.
MR CoCC goes into a huge spill here and its available on the link. I have some knowledge of this Dixie Theology that seems to come from a very particular Reformed tradition. It is very Presbytarian in out look but a very severe branch of it. It also has some Reconstructionalist theology in its most severe elements
Well let me say this. I suspect that we can disagree on the Bible all night long. I am a Roman Catholic and I will stick to her tenets. As I posted on this blog, for instance the attitude toward this immigration issue and these aliens I find to be very unbiblical. Part two of my thoughts on this issue btw will be produced hopefully this week. Second, as to racial equality I have seen no evidence of there being God mandated Racial inequality in the scriptures. We are all one in Christ Jesus.

(4)I also believe that by exposing groups as this pseudo Klan like group , that Republicans I admire will not feel the need to go and pander to them in close elections.
CoCC says that anti defamation league, the poverty center, and the left wing kooksphere has been making claims like this for years. So what is going to change if a few bloggers take this on.--

- Well, first of all its the 21st century. The attitudes of my generation are quite different than the ones that are older that went through the turbulant times of integration. We see fault on all sides and recognize that the racial politics played by militant ethnic groups, no matter their color, is and was a disaster. We are not going to retreat into the policies of David Duke and other racial separtist. Furthermore, something more sinster and complex is happening here. There seems to be an alliance playing out between these radical population control folks represented by FAIR, NUMBERS, CIS, and other Tanton spinoffs and groups such as your own. When the pro-life and Christian community get a wind of that there will be a pox on both your houses I believe. At this point they are pretty much clueless. I will not change the World but I can be a small part of alerting the masses out there to these extremes. The difference is that times have changed. The GOP will remain true to its historical purpose and political bearings. But it will become more browner, blacker, and in the end more color blind. In fact, at times I feel that is why the The Council and other groups fear Latinos so much. Despite all the propaganda their concept of race is quite different from black and whites. In effect they have no problems crossing certain ethnic lines in marrying. That coupled with the fact that marrying Latinos is far less of a taboo in our culture would be a disaster for all the people who want pure white blood and have visions of a seperate white political enity.
Regardless, the GOP is changing not in views but its becoming more diverse skin color wize. We are seeing that with conservative GOP canidates nationwide. Whether they are running for Congress, the Senate, or Governor. The Council of Conservative Citizens is a hindrance to that goal. Plus as I can clearly see ,yall are getting more radical by the day. Especially with the open embrace of such groups as Stormfront. This will accelerate your eventual political insignificance once Conservatives expose that. I hate to say it but the Council of Conservative Citizens is living in a time warp. This Country is moving on. Its our Destiny I believe to be a beacon of hope to the World. As long as we continue in that God will bless us.

(5)I am quite aware of the battle between the CoCC and Morris Dees of the SPLC. I am under no illusion that Mr.. Dees is a member of the Republican party. However, this group has done some good work in exposing hate. Its their niche in the political debate.

CoCC as you can see goes into how the SPLC is getting rich because he scares leftwingers that if they donate money the Nazis will one day throw them into the gas chambers. He agrees with me that the minute men is probally a financial scam but that I should be more concerned about the SPLC.
Well, I will let the SPLC defend themselves. I do know its seems to a source of amusement it appears on both sides for yall to snipe at each other. That is one reason I am doing this. I am not endorsing everything Dees does. In fact he goes off on tangents that are stupid. If I recall correctly, he is about obsessed with the Confederate Battle Flag as yall. I believe he has better things to do than be concerned about issues such as if LSU or OLE Miss fans wave a flag. That being said he has performed a service. HE was one of the first that raised the issues of how Tancredo's friend Tanton was infiltrating Liberal Enviromental groups and actually did the much of the basic research on that element. However, he will be a non factor soon. Soon the truth will be told by conservative organizations and we will not have to filter out his liberal slant.

(6)What the Council fears is that real conservatives and Republicans will start putting them and others under the magnify glass. That is what Subway Canaries, other bloggers , and myself are going to do. In essence the Conservative Right will excise Kookdum from our midst and they fear that.
Well CoCC kinda of goes off and annouces he doesn't care what neo cons do. That he doesnt really give a damn about us and only cares about human beings.
First off, there is about a thousand definations of neo cons out there. So I am not sure what he means. Often neo Con is code for Jewish conspiracies. Sometimes its used for those that believe in free trade. Recently, I have seen it used on some forums as to people that wish to have a one world government. Perhaps he will define it. I suspect he has in his blog but I have not jumped fully into that font of wisdom yet.

As to caring about people. So do we Mr CoCC. That is one reason why the Republican Party has fought to free the slave, to fight for the born and not born. It is the reason why this party is fighting against Euthanasia that certain elements of FAIR, CIS, Numbers , and other "anti immigration groups" would like to see. Its the reason why in the 60's the Republican Congressmen gave the votes needed to pass the legislation to end Jim Crow, that was enslaving both the black and the white and dooming us whites(Speaking for white Southerners) to hatred and endangerment of our souls. Its the reason we fought the battle against communism. A battle that we the Republican Party have largely had to fight alone since Lyndon Johnson left office. We are the ones that are fighting the despotic ways and hatred of radical Islam. We are the party that is again fighting for Freedom in the World in this WOT. This Republican Party that now exist is doing that. The Republican Party of today is shown in the man leading it. George W. Bush. A conservative but with compassion. A compassion and a ethic, and a philosophy that recognizes that every human being has a basic dignity and that when you stomp without regard or consideration of that dignity of some, even the illegals, that none of us are safe. Its a pro family party that believes in the safeguarding of the family. Which also calls it too look at real soultions to what happens in mixed families that include a illegal parent(s) and his legal spouse or even worse American children. It is a Republican Philosophy that is life giving and keeps us from the abuses of the powerful even if those might one day be in the majority

(7)Perhaps the CoCC is mad because they are not getting a cut
CoCC is say that their board of directors will never been sent to prision for wire fraud or other like crimes , and I think making an allusion the the current Minuteman and other leadership

Good gosh please tell us what you know about that. I suspect a lot and you have some well grounded reasons why you think it. May I suggest calling the Federal Attorney with what you know. But he is right. I was being a smart ass there. I have met some of the CoCC folks in Mississippi. They are true believers and monetary gain is not their goal. I recant that they have a profit motive even though it just makes me more scared of you in reality.

(8)We shall follow this development closer here at the Pondering American because it seems that Greed and the almighty dollar is about to triumph over the need to perserve the White race and ship all the illegals(Mexicans) back over the border.
CoCC responds that he has heard that song before. I am not so sure what he is getting at. Is it because he thinks I am cynic? or is it because I am speaking of reality and he is frustrated. I am not sure

(9)Also look at that last line of that entry. What does that mean?
I will quote directly right here because its important. he says "You Can't be that naive. Can you?"
I have to admit Mr CoCC is being incredibly honest and at the same time very tantalizing. This statement I was referring to was in the section where he is talking about all the financial shenniganns out west with all the major players we hear on the news. As I stated before, Subway Canaries is on to that too. His statement was that he was glad that the Council of Conservative Citizens was not "formally" associated with the minutemen and the other organizations he is referencing. Touche Mr CoCC. I do respect your honesty.

(10)My question to the Council of Council of Conservative (hijack word alert) Citizens of St Louis is what are you denying in any of these reports. What do you object to and what do you accept?
Here as you can see that he says there is no such thing as the Klan anymore and all these connections are just too flimsy to be taken seriously as to the Klan or any other group.

Well let me say this. It is true that the Klan was given a almost mortal blow a few years ago by the SPLC. However its still around. There is a resurgance in white power groups and hate groups that is seen by Storm front. Just go to that site and see how many people are browsing it. That is just one There are dozens like that out there. I do not mean to imply that every member of the Council goes and burns crosses at night. I was referring to a mentality. However, I think there is a case building that Tanton's groups are in league at some level with the Council

(11)This is a man that even tried to deny his connections to you but you talk about him in your June 20th 2006 post as now appearing at you glorious convention last weekend.
This is referring to the head of the anti immigration movement and former minuteman pilot from Arkansas. He is being honest and clever and funny so I salute him there

I am skipping the next two comments , because of the late hour but they are pretty good. I never said that racist in kuckdom can't be funny or witty.Basically he said that the MSM makes politicians scared of public associations with them and that he wouldn't mind if they got out of the mainstream Republican party and conservative movements

(12)By the way, the Nation magazine has quoted leaders of the CoCC that Representative Tancredo has met with the President of your Organization and other folks over planning sessions on the immigration issue
Mr CoCC basically says so what. HE was talking to our leaders and guess what they vote too.

Well damn, I thought we were going to get some more tantalizing facts there. But this person of influence is admiting that Tancredo talked to them I think that is significant

(13)The St Louis Council of Conservative Citizens is a pretty big chapter, I think in the whole Council scheme of things.
He says he takes that as a compliment

Ahh sweet :) Seriously this branch of the CoCC is a biggie and from reading his blog its clear he is a man of influence there and in the National Chapter. This is a rare glimpse we are seeing

(14)Just remember when you hear that there are groups protesting against the President Bush's views on immigration to ask these questions. Who is organizing it and who are the main participants
CoCC says just make sure I spell them correctly and throw in how do you join those groups

I am not sure he is ribbing me on my horrible grammer and spelling or he wants to use me as a promotional tool to get the word out on the Council of Conservative Citizens.

We will skip the next funny comment lol

A few points about his disscussion of astro turf. This is exactly what has been alleged against the the anti immigration movement. It is amusing that he is trying to turn this around. I will quote them anyway even though the Council will object because of its source

If any one is reading this and those how I can copy and paste off a blog like his leave it in the comments. I wish I could paste his last response.
Basically he is saying that the pro immigration side has backers too. I suppose he means business etc. HE also mentions all the money we are getting from latino groups, how his views are with 90 percent of the Americans and says we have so much astro turf it would damage football players acl's lol

Let me say that I am just overwhelmed by all the money we are getting(sarc). from Latino groups. To say the least the latino groups have held their fire on a lot of unpleasant things that could be said in media buys. Again, I have referenced polls and other bloggers observation of polls that explodes this myth that 90 percent of Americans think like MR CoCC. I will get into the astro turf debate on a later post


Mr CoCC it has been a pleasure and till we meet again. Also please convert from your troublesome ways. Kumba ya. Next time please tell us more of what you know whats going on out west with Gilchrist and company. Also please explain all this Storm Front stuff/White Power and their connections to the Council next time that you just skipped over.





1 Comments:

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